POSTED: Fri, 02/04/2011 - 5:39pm

Mad Men

This is the only show on television that I can stand watching. Alot has been said of the non size 0 shape of secretary Joan Holloway. While refreshing to see on primtime tv, I doubt the U.S. is ready to embrace this curvy view of woman. Which is a shame, considering that very few women are a size 0 but quite a few are a size 8 and above.
REPLIES 28  (Jump to bottom of page)


POSTED: Wed, 08/24/2011 - 1:42pm


Has anyone seen the new Mad Men clothing collection at Banana Republic? Oh! If I only had more money! lol!


POSTED: Wed, 08/24/2011 - 9:18pm

I will check it out...

But not buy, sadly. I'm on a spending budget. But maybe we can recreate this look at the local Goodwill or consignment shop. A good pencil skirt, a body hugging sweater set and voila! I remember my mother turning her sweater backwards so the buttons went suggestively up her spine instead. Totally Mad Men. Totally doable with today's sweaters. Let's start something. :)


POSTED: Fri, 02/04/2011 - 9:18pm

The Mad Men era

I love the whole "pencil skirt, sweater set" style of Mad Men. Women who have a shape look the best in those styles. Size zero women often look like Q-tips... (big head, tiny straight body) in my opinion. What's fun about a straight up and down shape? Especially in a skirt that's meant to accentuate the curves of a woman.

Sophia Loren was never a size zero. Neither was Marilyn Monroe.

And while I'm on my rant.... a size zero today is probably the size 8 of yesteryear. Vanity sizing makes the coveted size zero not a zero at all.

Good topic, AngelaR, and welcome to the site. :)


POSTED: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 11:13am

In old money,

the delightfully curvaceous Marilyn Monroe was a size 16.


POSTED: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 6:51pm


movie was that?Can't find the title .Size 16 and nobody would ever deny her beauty or sexiness.


POSTED: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 4:22pm

Sorry Jean,

'In old money' isn't a film! It's a saying, referring to something when it had a different value. So, a size 16 UK (12 US) would by today's standards be a smaller dress size due to vanity fitting. Having said that, I heard this about Marilyn probably 20 years ago - but now they are saying she was an 8-10....really they can't decide! I had a vintage wool, size 16 labelled dress from the 1960's, and it was more like a 12 (UK) Labels can be very misleading ... manufacturers want us to buy their clothes, and will make us feel as small (and as good - for that make us more likely to buy) as possible.


POSTED: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 8:25pm


Thanks for clarifying that.It is an expression I have not heard before.The thing that strikes me is that if we base our body image on what"fashion"tells us, we are bound to fail,suffer and never be bien dans nos peaux.


POSTED: Mon, 02/07/2011 - 12:59pm

This is the problem...

we're not even 'guided' but 'told' what sizes we should be; size 0 still being favoured. Rarely are there two fashion houses with sizes that run the same, so no wonder we get confused (and feel dejected when we're a 10 in one store and a 12 in another!) It's like house prices - dictated and over inflated by people in the industry, without qualification to do so (I can say this as an ex-estate agent, married to a Chartered Surveyor at the time!) I didn't like the way the industry was run, so bailed out and developed property instead.

Unfortunately, with 'fashion', the media and fashion houses make so much money from us - they have to keep us 'hooked' and by doing that, they make clothing sizes more appealing by vanity sizing. It's wrong but it goes on, so what can you do? We are as you say, set to fail - which is why just being happy with yourself is so important.

P.s. like your new avatar!


POSTED: Mon, 02/07/2011 - 7:31pm

How do we battle this??

It is like the Diet Industry.Enough of us need to stand up and demand the truth,I guess.I look at The Sartorialist and when I see his photos of models at the Fashion Shows,it makes me cringe.That is not the truth.

Thanks re the Avatar.That was taken on the top of a Scottish Higland peak awhile ago.What a trip that was!! OXO


POSTED: Wed, 02/09/2011 - 1:19pm

I think the only answer is not to

battle it but as snorklee says, just wear what we want. We should feel how we want and do what we want; why conform to the impossible? There will always be people who try to (and more fool them for giving in to these fashion houses.) Being a 'dedicated' follower of fashion is no fun. Taking snippets (or not) and creating your own individual style is.


POSTED: Wed, 02/09/2011 - 1:13pm


certainly look very happy!


POSTED: Mon, 02/07/2011 - 10:37pm

Taking on the fashion industry

I guess the best we can do is to wear what we like and what looks good on us, and the heck with the rest. French women are stubborn individualists, who dress to accentuate their best features. That is the best way to tell the fashion industry to take a hike, in my opinion. :)

BTW Jean, your photo is so cute! You look so happy.


POSTED: Mon, 02/07/2011 - 11:05pm

Mais oui

The French Woman Manifesto.Well said,Deb.I think it is a very interesting dicotomy that major fashion houses reside in Paris ,yet French women follow their own minds.

Thanks for the pic.compliment.That was a fun day ,driving through the Highlands and the weather being different on each and every peak.


POSTED: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 11:36am


How fantastic she looked, too. She is an icon.


POSTED: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 10:01am


I am with you on the size zero issue.How utterly rediculous to strive to be absent,as zero suggsts.Thanks for bringing it up.And of course a big WELCOME to you AngelaR.OXO Jean


POSTED: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 10:24am

Well said, Jean

I love that, "Striving to be absent" says it all. I have a sister, whom I love dearly, who diets and exercises to the extreme, and always has for the last 35 years. We cannot even lovingly suggest that she may have the teensiest problem with eating/exercising. She will have none of it.

She was a size zero for a long time. One day, she called me, all excited, and said that she had just bought a size 00 pair of jeans. Apparently 00 is smaller than 0. Exasperated, I said, "Congratulations. What's next, Barbie clothes?"

She didn't think I was funny.



POSTED: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 1:00pm

Wow Deb that's crazy!

Question for you though - does your family compare you to her? I have a sister that was a flight attendant for years and she was always tall and thin - US size 6 and I was constantly harassed and compared to her by my mother because I was never a size 6. My other sister is tall and thin also and I'm only 5'2". However the years have not been kind to her and she now knows what it is like to fight weight. It's been tough over the years and I'm convinced that's why God gave me a daughter so that I could break that cycle. My daughter goes shopping with me and looks at those size 0 and 00 and says MOM - Who wears these??? I can't even wear that and I'm a KID!! I'm trying to teach my daughter that you have to be comfortable in your own skin and I tell my sister that if she wants to lose weight for herself and for her health that's fine but that should be the only reason. I tell people all the time I can honestly say that I have never been and could never be a size 0, size 2, size 4. My hip structure is too big and I enjoy my curves thank you very much! :)


POSTED: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 1:54pm

Family dynamics

Good question, miamoki. :) My mother was always very conscious of her weight, and not so subtly competed with us growing up, as in... "Wow, you weigh that much? I only weigh 100." So, not a good role model for my sisters and I.

Even when I was 13 years old and considered thin, I was never a size zero either. I've got hips. :) Years of working on my self-esteem haven't really helped me in that I always feel fat around my skinny sister, even though I love her to death.

Like you, I was committed to not perpetuating the damaging dynamics to my own daughters. I kept my internal struggles to myself and worked hard to cultivate a healthy, fit, atmosphere in our home. My daughters have grown up to be beautiful, normal-sized, healthy women, thank God. But, it was difficult for me to leave bad thinking patterns behind, and occasionally I slip very quietly into feeling bad about myself. Especially now when metabolism shifts are making me crazy and I've gained some weight.

I understand the angst, miamoki. I'm the shortest of my sisters, too, so every pound looks bigger on me. lol. I have two more sisters, and they both struggle with their weight too. Although, my youngest sister has lost 40 pounds, finally just eating sensibly and exercising. I am so happy for her. She's got it all figured out at last.

All of this would have been so much easier if my sisters and I had only been born in France and had a French maman, but at least I have this wonderful website to help teach me to attain normalcy with eating and weight.


POSTED: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 8:32pm

Family Dynamics

What we learn at home from those we love and trust,impacts us for the rest of our lives.That dark cloud of self-doubt follows,at all times.Here I am 66 years old and still struggling with my body image(a lesson learned from my mother)There is no blame here anymore;only a clearer understanding of how I learned this negative view.I am truly touched by the fact that you and Linda made it a priority to be sure your daughters are healthy people.Bless you both.OXO Jean


POSTED: Sun, 02/06/2011 - 1:37pm

Oh wow

You have got it so right and are doing an incredible job with your DD.Enjoy your life and ignore crazy,impossible comparisons.Well done!!OXO


POSTED: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 11:00am

Hear, hear

Oh so true. I have friends who are the same. What they don't realise is that at 60+ it shows in the face if they diet too much. One is determined to lose a dress size for her daughter's wedding in June, she is already a UK size 8 (not sure what US size that is). If she is not careful she will look ill, but as with your sister she will have none of it. Such a shame as she is a lovely woman and a good friend.


POSTED: Sat, 02/05/2011 - 10:39am


I can fully understand your feelings and concern for your sister.00 seems to be ....well words fail me.What a cruel task master the diet industry is.You have chosen a sane and healthy path.Take care.OXO Jean


POSTED: Mon, 02/07/2011 - 2:34pm

Reading all these posts

makes me very happy that I have only brothers, and that my dear mom didn't give two figs for fashion. My father's sisters are all tall, curvy Dutch women, and even my tall, thin Dutch cousins are very accepting of whatever size they are. I am still learning what are the best clothing shapes for me as I approach middle age (and as my middle ages faster than the rest of me), but I have always preferred tailored clothes in classic shapes, and the only times I have steered wrong have been when I tried something that was more trendy.

DD is nearly 13, and she isn't even a "0" which appears to me to be about a sewing pattern size 4. At least sewing patterns have not changed sizes in the last 50 years. :p


POSTED: Mon, 02/07/2011 - 7:34pm

Co Worker

Every woman in my office is on weight watchers and a few of them are itty bitty things! I don't get it. We let the media do this to us. We buy into the myth that we have to be a certain size to be happy. I close my eyes to all the hype. I don't read fashion magazines that don't respect me, and don't buy clothes from designers who don't respect me.


POSTED: Mon, 02/07/2011 - 7:40pm


I applaud your stand and support it.Who do you find respectful in the fashion industry,magazine annd lothes wise?OXO Jean


POSTED: Mon, 02/07/2011 - 8:23pm

Not good

Well Vintage, I have to say, it's not good. While some magazines are the lesser of two evils, they're still kind of bad. More Magazine though it's target market is aimed at women over 40, still lean towards very thin models. Redbook is better. The target market for them is the same but they at least show women of different sizes. Clothing wise, I'd say Talbots is very good. The cut of their clothing is made for women with "not size 0" frames. Jones of New York also good for that very same reason.


POSTED: Mon, 02/07/2011 - 8:45pm

Too true

It is not good.Thanks for your recommendations.I subscribe to More but do find the models on the thin side.Shall check out Redbook.Love Jones of New York and will have another look at Talbots.Here in Canada,I would say Chatelaine and Canadian Living have more realistic models depicted.As for Canadian designers who cater to real women I shall do a Google search.I do know a lovely designer in Montreal who styles only for "Real"women His label is Poisson and he often shows up at craft fairs.He says he designs for his mother and sisters!!I own a few of his pieces.I get so steamed up I want to take on the Diet and Fashion Industries single handed.Talk about tilting at windmills.OXO Jean


POSTED: Mon, 02/07/2011 - 7:33pm

Hi Annamey

Blessings for your mother and for you for raising your DD with a healthy attitude.OXO


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