STYLE TALK

snorklee

POSTED: Thu, 01/21/2010 - 10:24am

French women... American men.

French women love fashion, and put a lot of thought into how they dress and present themselves to the world. I love that philosophy, and now that I've been introduced to a world of dressing with style, I'm starting to wonder about something.

As Mireille says, "French women dress to take out the garbage, because you never know." :) So, I imagine in France, that men put equal thought into how they present themselves. Women dress for pleasure and to be viewed as stylish, and I think that French men return the favor and present themselves stylishly for women. Sort of like a mutual admiration society of the sexes.

But, since I've been paying more attention to how I look when I go out in the world, I've noticed a real disparity between women and men, especially since I am single again... and observing men my age a little more closely... ;)

So many men have just let themselves go! It's true it might be different in major metropolitan areas, like NYC, but here in anytown USA.... yikes.

The other day, I saw a couple walking in the mall. She looked so cute, from her carefully thought out white wool mini over dark brown leggings, beautiful ivory cashmere sweater, chic boots, matching belt and bag, and a little newsboy cap. Every detail from head to toe was perfect. Here was a woman who presented herself well to the world and enjoyed fashion. Well, her beau looked like he fell out from under a train. Saggy sweats, big stretched out sneakers that he didn't even bother to tie, stained sweatshirt, and stubble on his face that was obviously from neglect, not an attempt to look like Don Johnson.

Tonight I have a dinner date with a witty, funny, articulate man. We're going to a trendy bistro, it's kind of French in spirit, actually. I'm going to do my thing and dress with attention to detail and put together a nice outfit. I know that he's going to roll off the couch and meet me there in whatever he found lying under his bed. I'm still going to have a good time, because I enjoy his company. But, really. At least brush the dust bunnies off the pant legs, Dennis. :)

I actually feel petty for complaining and I'm not really complaining. Just noticing that it's not a mutual thing, as a rule, on this side of the Atlantic. My question is, couldn't American men take as much pride in their appearance as French men? Wouldn't it be nice, if they spent some time (any time...) raising the bar, and presenting themselves well for us? What are everyones thoughts on this?

Cheers,
Deb
REPLIES 33  (Jump to bottom of page)

Celeste

POSTED: Sun, 03/21/2010 - 1:36pm

British Men II

I know this is a diversion from French Women...American Men but I'd like to share this. I took my hubby shopping in York( where we live) last weekend. He has a truly limited wardrobe but is quite stylish ( Reiss sweaters and Sarah Coggles everything else) I did a quick mine sweep in Coggles, grabbed loads and off he went to try. When he came out to 'give me a twirl' he said, ' Isn't that the nude leather jacket you were drooling over in Grazia mag, C?' It was. he made me try it on. Ahhhh! Anyway, I pretended it wasn't that totally gorge and we went for lunch. Next morning went into back bedroom ( everyone in the UK has a back bedroom) Thought I was going to have to put way his new purchases as he couldn't be bothered. It was/is the nude, butter soft leather biker. He didn't get what he wanted because he wanted me to have that more. Don't get me wrong, he is no scruff but he said he'd rather I looked great than him

Vintage1944

POSTED: Sun, 03/21/2010 - 11:22pm

O.K.

I love this guy ,too.LOL.What a super guy!Would consider cloning him ?;-))

Marilyn

POSTED: Sun, 03/21/2010 - 5:26pm

Celeste

How lucky you are with your man that he puts you before himself. We both are because mine is the same. When we go clothes shopping for him I just don't look at anything now as he would tell me to get what I want and not bother himself.

The jacket sounds divine and I bet he will get great pleasure looking at you in it.

Funny about us Brits and our back bedrooms. Very handy when setting out clothes for going on holiday.

jas

POSTED: Sun, 03/21/2010 - 3:14pm

that is so

beautiful Celeste, thanks for sharing this story with us.

Celeste

POSTED: Sun, 03/21/2010 - 1:36pm

British Men II

I know this is a diversion from French Women...American Men but I'd like to share this. I took my hubby shopping in York( where we live) last weekend. He has a truly limited wardrobe but is quite stylish ( Reiss sweaters and Sarah Coggles everything else) I did a quick mine sweep in Coggles, grabbed loads and off he went to try. When he came out to 'give me a twirl' he said, ' Isn't that the nude leather jacket you were drooling over in Grazia mag, C?' It was. he made me try it on. Ahhhh! Anyway, I pretended it wasn't that totally gorge and we went for lunch. Next morning went into back bedroom ( everyone in the UK has a back bedroom) Thought I was going to have to put way his new purchases as he couldn't be bothered. It was/is the nude, butter soft leather biker. He didn't get what he wanted because he wanted me to have that more. Don't get me wrong, he is no scruff but he said he'd rather I looked great than him

Vintage1944

POSTED: Thu, 01/21/2010 - 7:04pm

BRAVA DEB!!!!!

Great topic and look at the response!!Fantastic.And Greg chimed in.I have lots to say on that topic and will later.I have a major pet peeve about the way men care for themselves here.I am headed out to meet a friend for supper and will say more later.Check out www.thesatorialist.com for well dressed men. Jean

Marilyn

POSTED: Fri, 01/22/2010 - 11:44am

British men

It's not just American men there are a lot of scruffy British men as well. You just have to look around and there they are. But there are smartly dressed men out there, whether or not dressed by their partner or not. I'm lucky my OH scrubs up quite well. He has his totally scruffy moments especially in the house when he is sitting working or 'watching' TV with his eyes closed. Usually when we venture forth together I do give him the once over to check that the colours match if nothing else. He's not colour blind but has a problem with navy and black!!!! Today he had on dark grey cord trousers, white n grey checked shirt, black Tommy Hilfiger sweater, black shoes. Topped it with black gilet (as it is cold). Luckily he does not suit jeans being a) the wrong side of 70 and b) somewhat portly. He looks best in a suit or jacket. He does try hard, bless him, and asks if not sure. Shopping for clothes is alien to him but we do his clothes shopping together, although except for shoes I usually have the final say. In fact after I have decluttered my wardrobe his is next on the list but I always do it when he's out golfing and go the charity shop very quickly before he notices garments are missing. Naughty I know but what the eye doesn't see the heart doesn't grieve over. He's not George Clooney but he's mine. xxxx Marilyn

jas

POSTED: Fri, 01/22/2010 - 3:09pm

you and OH

Marilyn, You and OH seem to have found such peace and contentment together. I hope I find that too.

Marilyn

POSTED: Fri, 01/22/2010 - 4:16pm

Jas

You will. One day you will suddenly realise it is there. Take care. Marilyn

iowagreen

POSTED: Thu, 01/21/2010 - 4:14pm

check other thread

there is another thread on this topic - scroll down, it is called "For men", started by yours truly- Greg I think I am the only guy here - at least that posts! Now, excuse me I need to go freshen up :-)

Vintage1944

POSTED: Thu, 01/21/2010 - 6:58pm

GREG!!

This so fun...so great to hear from you.Glenn checked in recently.WE NEED more male input here.How are you ?Are you wel?happy ?happy NewYear!!OXO Jean

Elizabeth G

POSTED: Thu, 01/21/2010 - 4:55pm

Apologies to Greg!

I apologize for being flip and condescending... nobody likes to be stereotyped, and we've certainly been doing that despite several specific examples here.

violette

POSTED: Thu, 01/21/2010 - 2:16pm

Still though....wanted to say, I still buy my hubby's clothes...

I still wanted to say....I still buy all hubby's clothes, and boys clothes too. I know what they all like, love to shop, and they need me for this, quite frankly. I have no friends who's hubbys even shop for their own clothes. None. So.....guess this is just what we women do....LOL. And I love doing it! P.S. My husband did, however, all of a sudden start shopping for clothes, (1st time in 20 years) when he had his affair 2 years ago....warning to any women reading this who's hubbys are normally oafs then all of a sudden start clothes shopping......looking back, I find it so funny. My hubby also dyed his hair 2 years ago, trying to get rid of his grey sides...(which I love) also so funny. AND, he also began some huge work out regime...which he still is doing....LOL. This is good exercise for him........however, women beware of mid-life crises in men!!!!LOL

violette

POSTED: Thu, 01/21/2010 - 2:09pm

What an amazing topic Snorklee~

Bonjour Deb~ I thank you for such a great thread. I have often thought of this too, and even asked my husband this very thing. Know what he said? He said there will always be a "shortage of men in the world,that there is a competition among women" to even "get a man" and women will always be glad to just have a man, and this is why she needs to look cute and it doesn't matter what he looks like. Imagine~ Maybe it's partly true in this country? I think so. You never see men putting in near the effort women do. Not even near. You see these beautiful glamorous women all cute in their clothes, bodies perfect, etc., with overweight, sloppily dressed men. This probably IS why Deb. Just look at celebs.....who comes to my mind is Nicole Kidman, with her sloppy husband who doesn't give a crap what he looks like, there are dozens and dozens more just like this couple. It;'s soooo American really, when you think about it. There will always be more women than men, and so the female species is in competition to "get the male". Such is life in all of the animal kingdom, (my hubby even said). It's always been the way of it, and unfortunately things will probably never change. It's the way of the world I suppose. I take a while to get ready, where my husband takes 5 minutes. He goes out in his sweat pants anywhere, tennis shoes, unshaven, etc.....and girls will come on to him, still, yes, desperate females who haven't, you know in a long time and are s____. For me, I need to do a lot of prepping, primping and wear cute clothes and heels to get noticed. But I do enjoy dressing up, I do. BUT, at the same time, after being married for 20 years, it's good to just hang out and be myself and still be loved. Deb, I think, regarding your topic, "there is nothing new under the sun". Where did you meet your new date? How exciting! I know if I was divorced (which I nearly was recently), a nice, sophisticated man, a nice dresser...etc.,and one who appreciates the arts would be high on my list)....LOL. And if I had a date with some oaf who looked like he didn't even bother to put on some nice clothes or get washed up, I'd never want to see him again. How do you feel? Have a great date.

snorklee

POSTED: Fri, 01/22/2010 - 1:25am

Hi Violette

I had a lovely time. :) He really is a charming man, and we spent about four hours lingering over dinner, espresso and an after dinner cordial. So that's really the important thing. I dressed up... bien sur. :) Black pants, ivory v-neck T, black cardigan, Gold chain necklace intertwined with black ribbon... and he had on his de rigueur wrinkled khakis and a pilly fleece pullover. He complimented me by saying I was very attractive... so, what was he wearing? I forget. lol.

Cheers,
Deb

jas

POSTED: Fri, 01/22/2010 - 3:11pm

wishing your dreams come true

I am so glad all went well. I really hope the best for you and him. Let us know. I'm rooting for you. You are beautiful. How did you meet him?

violette

POSTED: Fri, 01/22/2010 - 2:16pm

Hi Deb

How wonderful you had such a nice date!!! Your outfit sounds tres chic~

Elizabeth G

POSTED: Thu, 01/21/2010 - 3:03pm

Violette -- oh no you didn't!

Keith Urban is adorable! He just goes for the country look, and I think he does it pretty darned well (I have a personal preference for that look however). When I think of the phenomenon you mention (trim, well-dressed wives with schlubby husbands) I think of sitcoms: King of Queens, According to Jim, even The Simpsons and The Family Guy, all the way back to The Honeymooners!

violette

POSTED: Thu, 01/21/2010 - 7:41pm

Liz...Beautiful women with "sleppy poorly dressed husbands"

Guess we all have our own taste (in men too)LOL...IMO, I feel Nichole Kidman is gorgeous, classy, and sophisticated and her hubby looks like a schlepp~~that's just my opinion and of course means nothing. I see in the "Enquirer" and all those other tabloids, "People", "US" Magazine, etc., I cannot honestly think of one handsome husband, on the arms of all those beautiful women. Not one. Well maybe Harrison Ford, and then again Mel Gibson, and Tom Cruise, (who is a very nice dresser).....OK there are a few, but compared to the women, the men are very average. My hubby has also said men "should have better looking wives than themselves"....it's a "conqueror thing" he says......lol--back again to the history of men/women, etc. This in interesting, I think. My hubby is a Homer Simpson to the maax. Our sons even call him Homer, only he's extremely handsome. But he acts like a big homer, which I love about him. You know ladies, one HUGE thing I have learned in my old age....HA...is I'd rather have a fat, bald, and plain sloppily dressed husband who adores me, than a handsome one who dresses well but has roaming eyes at other women. Any day.......

Elizabeth G

POSTED: Thu, 01/21/2010 - 8:38pm

Violette!

I must be in a cantankerous mood, I'm disagreeing with people all over the place! :-) It's obviously time for a glass of wine or the proverbial chill pill. See how conveniently life works out... I won't step on your toes about Tom Cruise and Mel Gibson, and I'll be free to roam my mental playground with Keith Urban and George Strait! Thank heavens for chocolate and vanilla! Have a wonderful evening.

violette

POSTED: Thu, 01/21/2010 - 9:52pm

~No need to apologize Liz for anything~~~

Bonsoir! No need to apologize for one thing! You are merely expressing your opinion, as I am, and as everyone on here is. We should all be allowed to, no matter. Which adds to more interesting discussions too, no???? Tres Bien~ Hey...Liz where are you writing from? I live in California. Do you as well?

Elizabeth G

POSTED: Thu, 01/21/2010 - 11:21pm

No longer a Californian

It's taken me 5 years of living in Washington state (eastern, not Seattle area) of finally admitting to myself that I'm not a Californian! I grew up in the Monterey area, went to college in San Francisco, and moved here from the San Luis Obispo area. So I've never lived more than 20 miles from the Pacific Ocean, and here I am in the Inland Northwest! The four seasons, in particular the long cold winters and harsh brown springs, were hard to get used to. But now I love the seasons and look forward to the next. Summer is too hot? A beautiful autumn is around the corner. Tired of snow and ice? Soon crocuses and tulips will be in bloom and it will be time to plan the garden. It's a different rhythm. And the amazing abundance of lakes, rivers and forests offer a different kind of beauty from the ocean and sand dunes, but intensely beautiful nevertheless.

Where are you, Violette?

violette

POSTED: Fri, 01/22/2010 - 12:30am

Liz......

I am, in Southern California. I wish I was in Paris, New York, back East, anywhere but in this God-forsaken place, as I overheard a man speaking to his son lately,,,,,,I could so relate. But my hubby does not want to move away, ever.....GASP... I do want to, one day..........Total difference of opinion here. I'd just love to be in Washington, or Canada, where I notice many of you are from. However, we do have, for the most part, mild weather, and much here to love. I can't complain too much. We have cheap flights to Paris, on the off season. We have wonderful culture, amazing shopping, the beach, mountains, and much to do. AND,no snow shoveling,,,,,HAHA guess cannot complain all that much....

Vintage1944

POSTED: Fri, 01/22/2010 - 12:02am

Elizabeth

You,my dear,are the bomb.Totally cool. Jean

Elizabeth G

POSTED: Fri, 01/22/2010 - 12:30am

((Blush))

Thank you so much!!

Cecily

POSTED: Thu, 01/21/2010 - 1:12pm

Men and appearance

My husband has spent most of his life dressing very badly. He was even proud of it, believe it or not! For years, he insisted I do all his clothes shopping for him, as though proper fitting was worthless. Last year, our son, who WANTS to look nice, was approaching college interview time, and wanted a new set of dress clothes. I took him to a full-service men's shop and just stood back and watched the salesman do his magic. Son came back looking very GH. Husband noticed, but it took months to convince him to go to this store. He would insist I GO and bring him back clothes. I refused, but his dress shirts were in bad repair, so I told him to stop at the store to get fitted for a couple of shirts. Result: he bought himself a whole new wardrobe and looks great! He now knows the salesman, and stops by occasionally for small items, now and then. The full-service aspect was a big selling point for my husband, since he hates picking through racks and likes the personal attention. So, Deb....even the grungiest looking guy can be reformed with the right attention. Have fun with your rapt conversationalist, and remember that!

Cecily

POSTED: Thu, 01/21/2010 - 2:26pm

Hahaha! My husband just IMed me to say...

...he's getting some 'designer jeans' at his now favorite store. I praised and told him he has a nice plated lunch waiting for him. Positive reinforcement!

violette

POSTED: Thu, 01/21/2010 - 2:32pm

How Cute Cecily~~~~

Yes indeed, men need positive reinforcement for sure.....and to be told often what they DO right. That's also good to find some little shops around where you live you both can frequent to find some clothes items! We love our local TJ Maax and Marshalls. BTW, what's for lunch?

Elizabeth G

POSTED: Thu, 01/21/2010 - 1:19pm

Men!

I know the dear souls don't ever want to be thought of as "projects" or fixer-uppers... but the facts speak for themselves more often than not!

Viva la Diva

POSTED: Thu, 01/21/2010 - 11:44am

Observations

Deb, I do not feel you are complaining, rather just observing. I have found that as we make changes in ourselves we cannot help but notice others. As for the disparity in dress between men and women in America; well unfortunately, we are living in the Homer Simpson era, rather than the bygone days of Gary Grant and others. We have a lot of societal norms that we are up against. Personally, I am working steadily on improving my own style. Consequently there is a ripple effect on my husband and son. My husband has begun to say he needs some new clothes (other than jeans and t shirts) and my son i sno longer worried about wearing what the other kids are wearing. Instead he takes pride in taking the time to find a shirt that flatters his best features, feels good, in and thus likes what he sees when he lloks in the mirror! It is different in that we are not shopping for what is trendy, but rather what best reflects who we are from the inside out. There is room for some things that are trendy, but ultimately I am enjoying taking the time to help both of them develop their style. For me, recently I have found that I do not need many items to do this well. I have some staples and mix it up daily. I have survived the winter with only three pair of pants/trousers and a handful of tops. Of course lots of scarves, and brooches, my signature pieces. I have noticed that since i have taken more pride in my appearance some others that I see regularly have begun to do so as well. So far as your date, or any man for that matter will respond well flattery and will be more likely to wear things that bring compliments.


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