FRENCH FINDS
coco1960
POSTED: Wed, 08/17/2011 - 9:34pm
Coco Chanel and World War II
Hello dear sisters. I just read a news story about Coco Chanel being a spy for the Nazis during World War II. I debated on whether or not to start this thread but I believe in our site and our sisterhood and our love of everything French. I know that Coco had a lover ( if not more then one) who was in the German Military during the War. But to hear that she was a possible spy has shook me up a bit. I guess I'm posting this because I would like to hear and share our thoughts about this. With much affection and respect..MJ aka Coco1960.MIREILLE'S CALENDAR
Click here to view Mireille's CalendarACTIVE FORUM TOPICS
RELATED
FRENCH_WOMEN ON TWITTER
- RT@ChefCarmenG my new restaurant Carmen at the Danforth will open in Portland,... http://t.co/MWad1iVq — 5 hours 24 min ago
- How to use up the frozen blueberries from last summer still in my freezer? http://t.co/OC7JLV7H — 5 hours 48 min ago
- @lydng No, the one and only is in the Big Apple — 1 week 17 hours ago
- Croissant class anyone... head to Mille-feuille http://t.co/Pdnki8kd — 1 week 1 day ago
- @culinarylibrari K's CI is a fancy title for what I referred to in my book as "use your head".... I don't take (cont) http://t.co/a0j4JEhL — 1 week 1 day ago
STAY AU COURANT
Sign up for the newsletter to receive news, special features and more.
Visit the fan page on Facebook
coco1960
POSTED: Sat, 08/20/2011 - 8:11am
Thank You
I finally had some time to read everyone's thoughtful postings. Last night I went to see Sarah's Key ..a powerful movie that seems to be time with the new Chanel book. I'm still not sure where I stand. I know Chanel had her demons and her childhood created a part of who she was...as it does for all of us. It seems that every generation has "their war" and although I am only 51 I guess WWII is my war. My uncles father and uncles fought in this war. It was the war that was taught to me in school. It was the war I would see in movies and books. Over the years I have had friends who were Jewish. We never discussed WW II the timing was never right or we were too young to venture into that topic. In the movie Sarah's Key Kristen Scott Thomas asks a co worker what would she have done during that time in Paris. I know it is easy to judge...and I try not to. I guess for me at least for now I will wait and read the book and do some sould searching. For not only is it about Chanel but it is also about me and I wonder what would I have done. Thank you dear sisters for lenting me write about this and I look forward to your thoughts. xo MJAngelaR
POSTED: Fri, 08/19/2011 - 11:56am
??
I take all of this with a grain of salt. This is just supposition. The only people who know the truth are dead. I'm really not fond of stories like these because they are always based on very little facts. But I am willing to give Coco the benefit of the doubt. She was trying to stay alive in a very evil war where she most likely would have died.Viva la Diva
POSTED: Fri, 08/19/2011 - 9:45am
This is an interesting
This is an interesting discussion. I picked up on the same hint from reading The Gospel According to Coco; that there were emotional and mental stability issues resulting from her father's abandonment. It makes sense to me she would have some issues with that. I,too, found the book a bit unsettling, not because of her issues, but because I needed a dreamy romance story to escape to, but it portrayed things I really did not wish to know about her. I felt it missed the point: that even though she went through all of these attrocities, she still followed her dreams. While I was studying art history in school, I found it very unsettling to discover that many artists were mentally unwell. In fact because of this knowledge, I considered not pursuing my own art because I di not want that association. Ansel Adams left his family (wife and many children) repeatedly to go off to the mountains for months at a time, sometimes a year. Knowing this changed the way I viewed his photography. That raises my question: Why is it acceptable for men to be spies and leave a family behind, but not for women to do the same? I mean, look at the Martha Stewart situation, going to jail for insider trading; there was a man involved in that as well, however all the coverage was about Martha. There raises the same issue, when men do certain things to get ahead, it is expected, when women do the same, it is frowned upon and they are referred to by a certain term. Whether or not Chanel was a spy does not change the way I see her spirit. She is an inspiration to me, because she went against the norm and truly pushed the envelope. Her simple style, liberated all women, in that it allowed us to think for ourselves and try something new. She gave women a new way to live through more freeing and moveable clothes. I have respect for the politics of and feelings that arise from discovering that someone a person has admired was potentially a traitor of sorts, however I harken back to when we read All You Need to Be Impossibly French as a group. It truly opened my eyes to the French way of thinking. That said, I choose to separate her impact on the world of fashion from her choices as a human being. I prefer to see the contribution.Marilyn
POSTED: Fri, 08/19/2011 - 6:11am
Love
The falling in love part is forgivable as apparently the Nazi officer was handsome, charming, erudite and younger than Chanel. You can't control where you fall in love. But when news of the atrocities started to filter through she just shut her door on the world and refused to discuss the war. I had not heard before that she was a spy and will read more on this. She was arrested at the end of the war, held for several hours and then released. She then departed for Switzerland in exile for 8 years where apparently the Nazi officer turned up for a few years before 'retiring' to a Mediterranean island. As a person whose father and uncles fought in WW2 I struggle to forgive those who worked against them but as I do not know Chanel's full story (and now who will) I will reserve judgement until I have read more.What is the title of the book and who is the author, please?
Vintage1944
POSTED: Fri, 08/19/2011 - 8:12am
Dear Marilyn
Love does show up where it will.I do understand your feelings,though.As stories of the atrocities surfaced,many did what she did.A real absence of empathy and a conscience.And such a hideous waste of lives.Having read "The Gospel According to Chanel"with my Psychiatric Nurse perspective,I see her as damaged .In fact,I believe she had a Personality Disorder,a severe one.It is not an excuse for her,nor is her superb talent an excuse for her behaviour.In fact ,I didn't finish reading it because it disturbed me so.Abuse breeds abuse.It will be very tough to forgive her.I will read this new book and finish "The Gospel...."to clarify my view of her.My sense of it is ,that she would always be attracted to "powerful"men;as perhaps she hoped it would make up for the rejection by her father and she could live out her sad fantasy,that he really loved her and would rescue her.As we say in my business I am ambivalent about her.Let's continue this discussion,please.OXOcoco1960
POSTED: Fri, 08/19/2011 - 6:29am
Sleeping With The Enemy:Coco Chenel's Secret War is the book
Good Morning dear sisters..the author of the book is Hal Vaughan and it is avail at my library so I have ordered it thru there. Perhaps your local libraries may have it. I have to dash to work but look forward to reading everyone's posts and to continue talking about this. Thank you for all your thoughts..xo MJVintage1944
POSTED: Fri, 08/19/2011 - 8:13am
Hi MJ
I will order it from my library.Have a fine day.OXOVintage1944
POSTED: Fri, 08/19/2011 - 8:19am
P.S.
Just ordered it.I am number 32 in line.There is lots of interest out there,I see.OXOVintage1944
POSTED: Thu, 08/18/2011 - 7:49pm
Hi MJ
It disturbed me,as well.When I read she lived with a Nazi during the war,I had questions,about her.But knowing her background,I can to some extent understand why she might do such a thing.She was a deeply wounded soul.Survival was paramount for her,whatever way she could.Forgiveness is possible(well said Jas).I can only try to imagine what it was like in Europe at that time.I am glad you brought this forward.I will read the book ,too.OXOmcormier
POSTED: Thu, 08/18/2011 - 6:32am
MJ...
I just Googled this topic and read a few articles related to the new book coming out...I guess I feel the same way you do...upset and sad at the same time. Michellecoco1960
POSTED: Thu, 08/18/2011 - 6:26pm
Michelle
Thank you for your post. I will be ordering the book from our local library..perhaps even find a corner at a Barnes and Noble. Reading Jas's post helped to put some things in a different perspective...I guess we will have to wait and see...xo MJjas
POSTED: Thu, 08/18/2011 - 8:30am
hmmmmmm
I don't know, this is just off the cuff. Forgiveness is the greatest gift we can give. If it is true, how do we put love where there was hate, how do we put kindness where it lacks? We can't ever know another person unless we have walked in their shoes or listened very deeply to them listened enough to hear what is in their souls. The world has so much "taking sides" choosing war and fighting, we all need more space and listening in our souls. Jascoco1960
POSTED: Thu, 08/18/2011 - 6:23pm
Thank you for your perspective Jas
Your words are so true. I was talking to one of my co workers today about this. Europe was a frightful place to be during WW II. And Chanel is not here to say her peace. I am sure so many people felt they were against a rock and a hard place and perhaps choices were made out of desperation. Thank you again for your wise words. MJmcormier
POSTED: Thu, 08/18/2011 - 9:29pm
MJ, Jas and Jean...
Well said...Thank you...it's true we can't imagine what it was like and what choices had to be made to survive...and since she is not here to tell her own story...we may never know the truth...what we do know is that she was human...just like us, dear sisters...xoxo Michellejas
POSTED: Thu, 08/18/2011 - 7:30pm
you welcome
Thank you for your kind words, MJ. They mean a lot to me. Jas